Welcome once and again to Reading the Wheel of Time. This week, week 14, we’re going to cover Chapters 39 and 40, in which Rand gets himself into one heck of a pickle. Seriously, if Mat is the Pippin of the group, then this is Rand’s Frodo moment of climbing up onto the table to sing and accidentally putting the ring on in front of everyone at the Prancing Pony. It seems like Rand just generally wants to climb up onto high things, and it is usually a bad idea that attracts attention he definitely does not want.
We’re also going to see a lot more Arthurian-sounding names from Jordan, and get to know a little more about politics in Caemlyn. While working on the recap, I was particularly struck by the chapter titles of 39 and 40: “Weaving of the Web” and “The Web Tightens”. Until now the chapter titles have been pretty straightforward. Chapter 1 is “An Empty Road” because Rand sees a rider and then on second glance the road is empty. Chapter 24 is “Flight Down the Arinelle” and they’re, you know, escaping down the Arinelle. Chapter 38, in which Perrin and Egwene get rescued, is literally just called “Rescue.” But there’s no conversation in Chapters 39 and 40 about the Wheel or its weaving, which suggests to me that Jordan is trying to gently imply something about the nature of the events that unfold in these chapters. Having mused before about what “fate” means in the context of people’s lives being threads in a pattern woven by the Wheel of Time, I feel like I can see more than coincidence driving Rand to the unlikely meeting he’s about to have.
Chapter 39 opens with Rand watching the street from his window, as excited crowds of people hurry toward the inner city to see the arrival of Logain as he’s brought to be presented to the Queen. He tries to convince Mat to come with him, but Mat is holed up in bed and will only mutter nasty comments about Loial being a Trolloc and burrow deeper into his bed. Rand leaves, frustrated and worried about Mat’s downward spiral. He’s even considering getting a healer for his friend, although he isn’t sure that it’s really sickness that is affecting Mat.
In the hall, Rand runs into Master Gil, who warns him that some “half mad” beggar has been about asking for Rand and the other two boys by name. He also mentions that the Whitecloaks are spreading rumors of “strange shapes” outside the city, which he regards as nonsense but make Rand anxious. Finally he warns Rand to be careful out there, and that “even today good Queen’s men will be outnumbered out there” and has Rand leave through the alley rather than the main entrance.
Rand has learned the significance of the wrappings that he put on his sword to hide the heron mark. The red wrappings, which he bought because they were cheaper, meant the wearer supported Queen Morgase, while white wrappings meant that the wearer believed that the Queen and her connections to the Aes Sedai were at fault for the bad weather and failed crops. White outnumbers red in the city, with even visitors compelled to choose a side.
The surface mood of the city is different today, as the capture of Logain means celebrating a victory of the Light over the Shadow. But the undercurrent of tensions remain as Rand joins the throng heading into the city; he sees Whitecloaks bumped “accidentally” and nearly knocked over, and realizing most of the people around him are showing white wrappings and armbands, Rand feels uneasy.
In the inner city, which is beautifully designed for stunning views, Rand finds a good vantage point to watch the route Logain will be taken on, close enough that he’ll be able to see the faces of the False Dragon and his escorts. He’s happy with his spot, until a strange and distasteful figure makes its way through the crowd, people jerking away as he passes. Rand watches the figure, a beggar dressed in rags with a cowl over his face, until suddenly the man turns and points straight at him with a cry.
Immediately Rand knows that he does not want that man to be anywhere near him, and he flees, shoving people aside as the beggar starts after him. He has to shove through the crowd, which draws everyone’s attention to him, and he worries that a man showing red and running from something might draw attention. Once he loses himself in the maze of the city he stops, knowing that the beggar will keep looking for him in the crowd of people. He considers going back to the inn, but he knows he will never have another chance to see the Queen or a False Dragon, so he decides to find somewhere to watch from, even if it’s from a distance. This proves a challenge, but eventually he discovers a high wall, which he climbs and discovers he can see the procession from the top.
The procession is impressive, but Logain himself, escorted by a group of Aes Sedai and warders, is what catches Rand’s attention. Despite being a prisoner, Logain holds himself like a king, and the crowd falls silent wherever he looks, and as rest of the people scream at him as he disappears into the palace, he laughs.
The procession continues, but Rand finds it anticlimactic after Logain, and he asks himself if the man was actually defeated. He can’t stop thinking about it, and wonders aloud why the Aes Sedai were watching him. A girl’s voice answers “They’re keeping him from touching the True Source, silly.” And Rand is so startled he loses his balance and falls, knocking himself out.
He wakes up on the inside of the wall, in what appears to be a park. There is a richly dressed girl a few years younger than he is and very pretty, and a slightly older boy, equally well-dressed. The boy observes that their mother will be angry with them, and through their conversation Rand learns that their names are Elayne and Gawyn. He tries to get up and excuse himself back over the wall, but a dizzy spell stops him, and the girl Elayne takes medical supplies out of her cloak and begins to work on his head, although Rand tries to pull away, not wanting such a well-dressed young woman to get blood on her. She tells him quite pointedly to stay still, and Rand asks Gawyn if she always expects everyone to do what she says; Gawyn, surprised by the question, says usually they do. Confused by the conversation that follows, in which Gawyn and Elayne debate over which people in Elayne’s life won’t do as she says, and Rand begins to become suspicious. When he asks who their mother is, Gawyn responds “Morgase, by the Grace of the Light, Queen of Andor, Protector of the Realm, Defender of the People, High Seat of the House Trakand.”
Hearing this, Rand panics, and tries to insist that he needs to go back over the wall. Elayne and Gawyn are surprised and curious that he didn’t know who they were, and ask for his name. Without thinking, Rand gives them his real name and admits that he’s from the Two Rivers. Gawyn seems particularly interested in this, and also surprised, and babbles a little about the type of people who live in the Two Rivers and how a stubborn husband from there would be good for Elayne. Just then another young man arrives, equally beautiful and almost as well dressed, and orders Elayne and Gawyn to get away from Rand.
Elayne tells the man, Galad, that Rand is under her protection, and Rand realizes that the man must be Galadedrid Damodred, Gawyn and Elayne’s half-brother. Galad insists Rand must be dangerous, and although Elayne tells him to leave and not tell anyone, a few moments later guards appear and surround Rand. Gawyn and Elayne stay in front of Rand to protect him from arrows of the soldiers, and Elayne has a terse discussion the head of the guards, Tallanvor, in which the two keep trying to one-up each other in power depending on rules and orders issued by Elayne or by her mother, Morgase. Just as Elayne has gotten the upper hand, however, another guard arrives, bringing a message commanding that all three of them be brought before the Queen.
Rand has no idea how to behave in the presence of the Queen; he copies Gawyn’s bow but finds Tallanvor glaring at him when he does. Queen Morgase, even more beautiful than her daughter, scolds Gawyn and Elayne for sneaking a look at Logain after they were told not to. Another woman, who is sitting behind the throne on a stool and knitting, comments that Elayne’s lessons in Tar Valon will teach her to be a great Queen, but her description of the teaching sounds almost like a threat. Rand realizes that she must be Elaida, the Aes Sedai, and he is suddenly very glad that he did not go to her for help.
The Queen turns her attention to Rand, and Elayne explains how Rand came to be inside the wall. She insists that meeting Rand was a valuable way for her to learn more about the people of the Two Rivers, and asks her mother to be good to a “loyal subject from the Two Rivers.” But Morgase is unimpressed by the plea, pointing out that the Two Rivers people don’t even know that they are part of the realm, a fact Rand accidentally confirms with his expression. But Elaida is struck by the suggestion that Rand is of the Two Rivers, given his hair and eye color, his skin, and his height, none of which are typical for those people.
She comes down to look at him, as Rand insists that he was born in Emond’s Field, and that he had an outlander mother who gave him his eyes. She reaches out to touch his sword hilt, and her eyes widen as she proclaims it to be a heron-marked sword. Instantly all in the room spring to attention, the guards ready to fight, Gareth Bryne, the Captain-General of the guards, putting himself between Rand and the Queen, and even Gawyn stepping in front of Elayne.
After a tense moment, Morgase points out that Rand is too young to have earned a heron mark. But Gareth Byrne insists that the sword belongs to Rand. Rand explains that the sword was his father’s, given to him when he decided to travel outside of the Two Rivers. Elaida has some choice things to say about the convenience of his story and the odds of someone like him ending up in Elyane’s presence at the same time as Logain is brought to the Queen, right before the future Queen is about to start out to Tar Valon and her training to rule. Morgase asks if she is naming Rand as a Darkfriend, if her words are “a fortelling.” She orders Elaida to “speak it clearly.”
“This I Foretell,” Elaida replied, “and swear under the Light that I can say no clearer. From this day Andor marches toward pain and division. The Shadow has yet to darken to its blackest, and I cannot see if the Light will come after. Where the world has wept one tear, it will weep thousands. This I Foretell.”
A pall of silence clung to the room, broken only by Morgase expelling her breath as if it were her last.
Elaida continued to stare into Rand’s eyes. She spoke again, barely moving her lips, so softly that he could barely hear her less than an arm’s length away. “This, too, I Foretell. Pain and division come to the whole world, and this man stands at the heart of it. I obey the Queen,” she whispered, “and speak it clearly.”
Despite this auspicious announcement, the Captain-General advises the Queen that he believes that Rand is innocent, and suggests that the safest course of action would be to lock him up for a few days until Gawyn and Elayne leave on their journey and then to let him go. Elaida likes this advice, but the Queen, after some deliberation, decides that she does not want to give into the suspicion and fear that is smothering Caemlyn. She asks Rand to swear that his story is true, that he means no harm to Elayne or to the throne, and Rand does. She tells Rand also that she has heard Two Rivers speech before and recognizes it, and orders the guards to escort him out with every courtesy.
Rand is escorted, Elayne and Gawyn still with him, to a small side door at the palace, gates. Elayne mentions, before she leaves, that she thinks he is handsome, which leaves Rand gaping. But he also has a chance to ask Gawyn why everyone thought he did not look like he was from the Two Rivers. Gawyn replies that, with a shoufa wrapped around his head, he would be “the image of an Aielman.”
With that Gawyn and the escort depart, leaving Rand standing outside the door, his mind reeling. He stands there until he suddenly realizes how easy it would be for Elaida to find him there, and then hurries off.
* * *
Whew! This was a difficult recap to write, because it feels like just about everything in these two chapters is going to be important going forward. Starting from the top, I am still reasonably sure that the gross beggar is Padan Fain, and that he’s become a darkfriend and is hunting Rand and the boys. It’s possible that there’s more to it, like maybe he isn’t directly in league with the Dark One but is somehow adjacent to the evil chasing the Three Rivers kids. Either that or it’s some kind of physical manifestation of Mordeth following them because of the dagger, but from what I’ve seen of Jordan’s writing, he always follows through with his set-ups, so I’m still waiting to learn the significance of that weird conversation that Rand had with the peddler in Baerlon, and the way Fain was so carefully insistent that Moiraine not know about him. It occurs to me too, now that I know about Ba’alzamon’s hounds, that Fain could have been on the scent of the Dragon Reborn for even longer that Moiraine; after all, someone had to lead the Trollocs and Fades to search he Two Rivers, right? How did they know that the Dragon Reborn had to be there?
But whatever or whoever the beggar is, though, him chasing Rand has had the effect of launching a very important series of events, as well as giving the readers a great deal of information about the royal family. Mostly because commenters have been pointing out the sounds and possible inspirations for WoT names but also because they are particularly obvious, I noted the similarity of the royal names to some form Arthurian legends: Morgase=Morgause, Gawyn=Gawain (son of Morgause in Le Morte d’Arthur) Galad=Galahad, and Elayne=Elaine (wife of Lancelot, mother of Galahad. I think there was more than one Elaine in the Arthurian stories, actually, but that’s getting off track.) The similarity of the names certainly evokes a sense of nobility and destiny, and I have a feeling Elayne and Gawyn will be important later in the series.
Gawyn’s awareness of Rand’s resemblance to an Aielman is worth noting, too. That truth of his lineage is getting harder and harder for Rand to avoid acknowledging, and I really think the penny is about to drop. I do wonder how much of him not realizing yet is just having too much on his mind (much easier for us readers to keep track of everything important than it is for the characters living it!) and how much is a deliberate effort to avoid realizing the truth. After Elaida’s foretelling, though, he’s got to realize that something’s up. There’s ta’veren, and then there’s “stand[ing] at the heart of” pain and division for the whole world.
Doesn’t make being the Dragon sound like much fun, does it? (Not that before this moment I thought it would be. Being the chosen one never is.)
I have to wonder what Elaida thinks about her own foretelling. She doesn’t give the relevant bit to the Queen for a reason, but she could just have easily murmured the last bit to herself rather than to Rand. Why would she tell him what she saw? A helpful warning? Or a not so helpful one, letting him know that she’s on to him? Rand definitely doesn’t feel like he can trust her, and I think his instincts are right.
What I don’t understand is how this Ajah thing works. The mentions of the Red Ajah have suggested that they are responsible for taking care of men who develop the ability to channel, and they don’t sound very nice. Thom also mentioned Black Ajah, and although they weren’t described in any way, there’s only so many ways to understand the color black in a world in which Evil and Good are literally titled Dark and Light. I’m sure we’ll get more information about how the Ajah factions work, but maybe not until we get to Tar Valon, which might not even happen in this book.
The heron-marked blade is another thing that we have some sense of from context so far, but there’s clearly more to the story than Rand or the reader have been given thus far. I gather that they were specifically awarded, possibly to those who distinguished themselves in a particular battle, and the bearers were such amazing swordsmen that the blade gets an instant reaction from anyone who recognizes it. The way the guards, Gawyn, and Gareth reacted when Elaida announced the sword is more intense than any reaction we have seen thus far; the guards are literally “prepared to die” when they learn that Rand carries such a distinguished blade. Tam al’Thor might have been a shepherd, but that man’s adventures were greater than anything he let on about.
Rand’s ability that Tam taught him to “find the void” seems to come from Tam’s swordsman skills and training, and I think it’s going to stand Rand in very good stead as he prepares to carry the burdens of being the Dragon. I’m sure that kind of calm focus is even more important in channeling than it is swordplay.
I’m also really interested in the state of the palace. It makes sense that the Aes Sedai would have the ability to make things grow and to ward against whatever dark influences are making winter last and ruining the harvests. But this is the first we’ve seen of such an ability, and Elayne’s complaint that it is unfair for the royal family to have flowers when the people can’t grow enough to eat feels like an important one. Perhaps it’s because I’m already suspicious of Elaida, but I suspect we will find plenty of Aes Sedai who are out of touch with the regular people, either because they don’t care or because they are too focused on the bigger picture of the war against the Dark One. That kind of perspective is something that Nynaeve has accused Moiraine of before, and although I don’t think that was really warranted in Moiraine’s case, I do think that it will be a problem in others.
Even more interesting is the fact that Elaida keeps rats out of the palace. Gawyn says that she “doesn’t like rats,” but I expect it is more than a personal dislike, given the associations between rats and Ba’alzamon.
I do wonder if Rand and Mat will have to flee Caemlyn now, rather than wait any longer in the hope of meeting up with Moiraine. Will this misadventure stop them from meeting? Rand gave Elaida false information about where he was staying, but I’m sure the Aes Sedai has the ability to search for him, either using the Queen’s resources or her own power. (Spoiler alert, Sylas, the next chapter is called Old Friends and New Threats, so maybe Moiraine and the others will find Rand after all. That would be a good thing too because it seems like Mat is in pretty deep at this point.)
Next week will cover chapters 41-43, and then things will really pick up. Meanwhile, I will see you all down in the comments! Any non-spoilery thoughts about the chapter titles? How about Rand’s crazy climbing? And I haven’t even touched on the significance of Rand, the Dragon Reborn, watching Logain, the false dragon, and being so struck by his presence and bearing. There’s just so much in these chapters!
Sylas K Barrett is very much ready for Rand to realize who he is.
I look forward to these every week Sylas!
“A shepherd from the Two Rivers,” she said softly, a whisper meant to be heard by all, “with a heron-mark sword.”
This scene will never not give me chills.
My goodness but you are good at picking up clues, Sylas! You are so very on tbe dot. I enjoyed this chapter because I am a total sucker for royalty meets commoner accidentally scenes. Elaida is a warning to Rand not to assume all Aes Sedai are alike and they won’t all be as helpful, if bossy, as Moiraine. If I were him I’d also be thinking twice about going to Tar Valon alone.
One of the things I love about Jordan’s writing is his attention to detail. Take Rand’s choice of the red wrapping as a perfect example. He needed to cover the herons on his sword to maintain anonymity, yet he bought red because it’s cheaper. This in turn helps him gain audience with Queen, even if she knows that he was unaware of being her citizen. Little details like that would be bordering on “convenient” plot devices in other stories, but as the chapter titles suggest, they’re a defining characteristic for Rand (and the other 2 boys), who is “central” to the pattern.
Cant wait for next week!
as per previous comment I am impressed by what you have picked up on in your first read through. Mine was decades ago now but I know that I missed plenty that you have picked up on. You state:
Can I ask what other Robert Jordan you have read before this? Beyond The Wheel of Time and some Conan I don’t think that I’ve read any of his other works and I’d be keen for suggestions (they need not be fantasy novels). I assume that you must have read some of his other works because thus far in TEotW none of his set ups have paid off.
Honestly though I’m not sure that all of his set-ups did pay off across the series but I’m sure that we’ll get to that in time.
Having been following your read of the series I picked up the EoTW again last weekend for the first time since completing aMoL on its original release . The prologue and other sections of the book have already given me the feeling of hairs standing up on my arms and the back of my neck. Robert Jordan was a truly superlative storyteller and is greatly missed.
Might want to go through the names and check the spellings. Logaine (twice) Morgause, Elida, Elyane. Mostly early on.
From the moment we are first introduced to Elaida, all I could think of was a big bloated spider. She always just creeps me out. She is a very self-centered person, and the world can hang as long as she gets her way. Green grass and flowers? Really? Use your power for something good for the people why don’t you! She was very miffed when Queen Morgase refused to hold Rand! I loved Rand’s thoughts as he climbed the wall, remembering childhood exploits with his best buds.
Yeah, the chapter titles are more general thematically. You’ll see all the players introduced in these two chapters again. Some more than others, but all will have a (rather significant in some cases) part to play. So the web of the pattern is getting set.
RJ is so great at foreshadowing. Who knew that a little thing like //Logain laughing// would turn out to be a big clue //about Rand//.
@6, to be fair to Elaida, when Elayne makes just that point to her, Elaida points put her power is limited and she could at best do one farm. Would Elayne care to choose one?
@9 While Elaida’s response is valid, it also shows how insensitive she is to the optics of a blossoming palace while the rest of the kingdom is wilting. Particularly considering Queen’s Men are outnumbered by the opposition who also don’t like the Aes Sedai. Which speaks to Sylas’ point about the Aes Sedai potentially being out of touch. Yes, they very well might be so.
Non-spoilery thoughts? Nope. I might pop a blood vessel keeping them in, though.
@8, I got chills when I read the real reason behind it for the first time!
These chapters are probably the most re-read for me in the entire EotW.
Some what on the topic of chapter titles, I was wondering if you have started to pay much attention to the chapter Icons yet?
As astounded as we are by your ability to catch on to RJ’s foreshadowing and clue dropping I would like to assure you that you are also missing plenty of stuff.
@MDNY (#3) Yes, exactly! I think the pattern device is a really clever one, and even though I’m still at the beginning of a very long journey I’m already basically sold on it. I think it was the explanation of ta’veren that did it for me; the idea that the pattern guides people and events, but also that some people are forces for change, that guide the pattern around them instead.
@Zero-G (#4) Honestly, that statement comes more from what I know of the works through interviews and fan comments, including some that were made on earlier posts in the read. But there are also little things that I have seen come back, like the Artur Hawkwing stuff, the info about Thom, and the mentions of Rand being as tall as an Aielmen starting as early back as chapter 65 (Thom calls him that). But yeah to be fair I’ve also encountered conversations amongst fans about that, and been warned to watch for certain things to come back around by commenters in the read!
@John (#5) Thank you! I somehow got it in my head that Logain had an “e” at the end and I just couldn’t get it out! ;-) Went and gave ‘er another pass.
@3 MDNY Not only did the red wrapping get him the audience with the Queen, but if he had shown up at The Queen’s Blessing with the white instead of the red, it is unlikely Basel Gill would have taken them in at all.
@princessroxana (#9) and @mp1952 (#10) And nothing speaks more of out-of-touch privilege than saying, “well, can’t help everyone so no point in helping anyone!” Bet she could come up with something that would be helpful and avoid the appearance of favoritism, if she really wanted to.
@Biter (#13) I haven’t paid much attention to the icons. I do look at them but nothing in particular has jumped out at me. Perhaps worth looking a little closer? And I am quite certain I am missing loads of stuff! I really enjoy when commenters allude to it or when I see those whited out bits and know there are surprises ahead.
Very true, Sylas. Out of touch pretty much describes the Aes Sedai order.
// So much pain. Unbelievably long and drawn out pain. Why won’t it bleeding end pain. //
Elaida // spits // probably lets Rand know for the same reason he ended up climbing the wall.
You sure you’ve never read these books before?
Very astute observations and nice recap.
@8 this may just be my politics coming through, but I always read Elayne’s criticism of the garden as a rebuke of the Elaida’s priorities. “It isn’t right that we should have FLOWERS while the common folk have no FOOD.” Priorities. Flowers are a frivolous use of the One Power that has no perceivable benefit to anyone. A single farm, even if only one would at leat be THAT much more food. An aes sedai powerful and clever enough to be assigned the Queens advisor should be able to think of something legitimately constructive to do with her energy.
And Elaida’s response is extremely telling in that is utterly dismissive of Elayne’s point.
Not @8 on my previous comment. I meant @9 princessroxanna, and in response your comment @17, // I really like how, to me at least, Jordan ends up setting up this comparison between the Aes Sedai as an order that is more focused on maintaining it’s own power than doing anything actually constructive in the world, aka out of touch as you say, vs Nynave as an Aes Sedai who just runs amok turning the notions of Aes Sedai detachment and calm on their heads. Nynaeve cares very much about people, and her entire presence in the story is a subtle repudiation of the the attitude the White Tower has come to embrace over the past few thousand years. //
@8 and @12 can you explain with a white out? It’s been too long since I’ve read these (I’m re-reading now), and I feel like I have the shape of what you are saying but not the color…..
@Biter (#13) I was so excited when I figured out the icons! I think I had read most of the books a few times before I started to recognize them. But some of them // are almost spoilery, like the darkfriend sign for a chapter on a character that hasn’t been revealed as evil yet, though I’m not sure if it would matter the first time through, it’s been so long since I first read them. //
@23 – Sure. //Logain has a Talent to see ta’veren. He saw Rand on top of the wall and laughed his head off because nobody saw the true storm coming.//
@19 – I’m with you!! As much as I am really enjoying these entries, am I really close to calling BS on Sylas not having read them before!! (Although, I truly believe no one at Tor would so blatantly toy with our reverence toward this series!!) Those observations about //Fain//?!?!? Come on!
I enjoy reading this every week. I wonder though are you going to keep doing this after the first book? I understand your confusion about how the Ajah work. I would suggest you read the prequel book after this one called New Spring. Lots of details about the White Tower and all the Ajah.
Is it considered spoiler-esque to describe the basic functions of the different Ajahs? I mean I get that it’s all part of the journey of discovery, and I do not want to rob you of that experience. However, it does feel like tertiary information and not directly plot related. I will let you decide.
Some unbelievable observations Sylas… You’re correct about some things and have shown your work backing up the assertions with references, but my goodness. //Fain being “dark adjacent” and possibly a physical manifestation of Mordeth?!?!!!1! If I didn’t know better I would call shenanigans.//
“Surprising what you can dig out of books if you read enough, isn’t it?” Maybe the extra slow pace is helping with the analysis. Most of us sped through these, for varying definitions of “sped.”
Re: Chapter Titles – an interesting tidbit of info is that apparently Harriet McDougal, RJ’s wife and editor, wrote all of the chapter titles for all the books. And also chose which icons to use where.
Man oh man….. // Fain or possibly a manifestation of Mordeth… how the…. this guy is just too good….//
I like how you’ve picked up there are subtle hints and information to be gained chapter titles not just the text //just wait till you realise the icons have meanings especially the Lanfear one would have told us so much if we understood beforehand//
@24 I figured them out really quick, not that I’m so astute to have figured them all out on the first book, I just happened to guess right when // the second Lion of Andor was shown that Rand would end up meeting the royal family in that chapter. I love them to bits and I can see how they’re a spoiler but I always took them to be more of a tease. I can recall many late nights while reading the new installment going even later because the next chapter had the wheel of time icon and there was just no way I would have been able to stop knowing that something big was about to happen. //
@19 and 26 that is a harsh accusation to be throwing around. You got to remember Sylas is not just reading this book but analyzing what he is reading then doing a write up about it. He is going to make connections none of us made the first time around because he is not just going to chapter to chapter. RJ left almost all the clues wide out in the open and if your going as in depth as he is your going to put 1+1 together. // if he figures out Verin then something is up. and not just the initial lie but her whole deal //
@Biter #31 – Wait, // the wheel of time icon means something big is going to happen?! Well, I feel stupid, I just always glossed over that one, like it was just kind of a neutral placeholder :). I was thinking of doing another reread, will have to pay more attention to those icons! //
@31 – No accusation (as I tried to iterate in stating that Tor wouldn’t prank us like that), more of a mock-offended, back-handed compliment to Sylas. I think I’ve applauded his ridiculous eye for picking out plot-important-details each week, and this week was even better! Just wanted another way to state it.
…but, maybe… ;)
@31 Sylas is also approaching the story from a literary perspective which makes some things easier to see coming. I certainly crash through the book looking for plot and worldbuilding. Stopping to meditate on the relevance of Arthurian naming schemes is just not going to happen.
@25 Thank you, I totally didn’t remember that…..
New Spring is an expanded version of a scene in book 2. It would make sense to read it after that.
//I wonder how long it will take Sylas to let the chapter icons get completely under her skin. I still remember that I audibly gasped and choked up when the Dragon icon finally appears at the end of TDR.//
Your insights on this series are truly incredible, although you have missed a few important things. Still, you’re doing a MUCH better job than I did when I first read the series decades ago. Two things to keep in mind which are both not spoilery, but which you might otherwise gloss over: the chapter icons are important, and in several places in the series give you key insights that you otherwise wouldn’t have. At the very least, they give you a head’s up that scenes or POV’s might be switching in that chapter. Two, when you get the end of each book, READ THE GLOSSARY. There’s a lot of important information in the glossary, and, um, one of the major mysteries of the entire series was solved in the glossary of one of the later books.
One reason I love the glossaries is that they give authoritative pronunciations! I feel like it gives RJ’s names more texture and weight without having a full-on invented language, since the glossary allows him to mandate non-phonetic pronunciations. (I didn’t know it was there until I’d finished EoTW for the first time. And then, of course, I had to update about 50% of my mental attempts at phonetic pronunciation. Never have managed to retrain myself to emphasize the first rather than the second syllable of “Nynaeve”, but at least I stopped myself pronouncing final “e” in a Greekish way!)
Nixorbo(#19)
Didn’t Neuxue get exactly that same comment / “question” from an astounding number of people? In fact, I believe she still does. About 1 to 2 months ago she wrote 2 amazing responses to what I can only describe as an accusation, the very same one you wrote — although yours was maybe just in jest, but given the amount of shit Neuxuen had to endure on this topic I’m not taking any chances; here they are:
http://neuxue.tumblr.com/post/171527510448/anon-probably-came-from-a-reddit-thread-where-op
http://neuxue.tumblr.com/post/172719613638/i-love-your-liveblog-so-much-you-are-amazing-at
I’d tell Sylas to look at them too, but there are some Spoilers referenced in there all the way up to Book 6, so he’d better not.
Don’t know if it’s been mentioned already, but in addition to the title of each chapter, the symbol under it is also significant.
@40 It seems Neuxue’s experience in doing a close read the first time through results in similar insights that Sylas is having. Two points aren’t a pattern but it’s suggestive that Jordan’s foreshadowing is deeper than is obvious in a crash reading.
Frankly, I can’t imagine how one would go about faking this. I think it’d be impossible to act properly ignorant of facts which become the foundation for future worldbuilding.
@Christopher (#27)
I really want what I’m about to write to come across and land, because it’s important to me, and the only way I can think of to accomplish that is to pronounce myself to be strong in one or two certain capacities. However, none of you know me, so I’ll almost certainly get called out for boasting, not be believed in any capacity, and my lofty aims will fail miserably regardless of what I do. The reality won’t actually be that I’m boasting, but there is nothing I can really do to convince any of you of that. By writing this first paragraph, I can at least find solace in getting to laugh and say I predicted this would happen.
So, the thing I was talking about in the previous paragraph is that I am, speaking both from my own observations and from those who know me in Real Life, rather adapt at analysing text, or a series of texts, and determine when what pieces would have the most impact on the vast majority of readers. I am also reasonably adept — though not nearly as adept as I am in ordering texts for maximum effect — at judging how certain things would effect certain people; this can be based on frequent interaction with them, but also from reading a blog post from them every week. Essentially, by listening to them or by reading their words, I form a picture in my head of how they operate on the inside…. of their Psyche, if you will. It’s something I do literally (or as-close-as-makes-no-difference literally) all the time, because it’s the only way I can continue to function in Society.
Based on the first capacity, I usually recommend people read New Spring either after The Fires of Heaven, due to a certain thingamajig to which we shall not waste any more words until it comes up, or after Crossroads of Twilight, because then is when it was released, or right at the end of the series, because I find that the more of Wheel of Time you’ve read, the better New Spring becomes. From what I’ve deduced of Sylas, I would certainly recommend waiting with NS until after TFoH. Any wait beyond that I leave to his own judgement.
And we’ll learn plenty about the Ajahs in the books to come, so there’s no need to read NS right after The Eye of the World. I think the biggest thing NS adds to our understanding of the Ajahs is in how an Aes Sedai gets to come to belong to whatever Ajah she’ll end up in, and also in how the inner mechanisms of the Ajahs operate. But their function, role, “personality” (for lack of a better word) and reason for existing are all explained in what I shall call the “main series”.
I would agree with @43 that New Spring should probably be delayed in reading order (I prefer “After TFoH” of her two options). While I think that it includes some of RJ’s most fascinating character writing, it will make a lot more sense read later in the series.
Not offended by your self-disclosure, @43. I suspect I know what you’re referring to.
@mutantilbinocrocodile (#39)
Interestingly, I am of almost the opposite opinion on this as you. I think there’s value in every reader having their own pronunciation of different names or WoT-specific words. This may also have to do with the fact that I first read the books in Dutch, which would naturally give a different pronunciation to things anyway [[not to mention the fact that Mat, say, is called Mart in Dutch, both Rand and Tam are written as Rhand and Tham (which in and of itself changes the ‘a’ from sounding like “bat” to sounding like “bar”), and the names al’Vere and al’Maera were Alveren and Almaeren, which not only adds an ‘n’ (which you don’t really hear) but more importantly shifts the emphasis to the first syllable from the second]].
I mean, Nynaeve and Moiraine retained their spellings in Dutch, but Dutch influences combined with close proximity to the French-speaking region of Europe, has led me to settle on “Nee-NEH-vuh” [vowels as in “knee”, “bet” and “lover“] and “MWAH-reh-nuh” [last 2 syllables rhyming with those from my Nyneave pronunciation]. If I were to choose a more English-sounding pronunciation, I’d go for Nee-NAV (as in SAT-NAV) and MORE-ran. Also, speaking of this chapter, Ej-lah-EE-dah [“late”; “nadir”; “sheet”, “nadir” again].
But apart from my native language, I just also feel that having our own pronunciations makes the text (and thus the story) our own, which I have always felt is more valuable than the opposite, which is establishing a universally shared “canon” for things.I can also see why others might hold the complete opposite view as mine, though.
@45
To each their own. I always try to go with the author’s definitive pronunciations – a habit I picked up with Tolkien the first time I reached the end of LOTR, 20-[mumble] years ago. Boy, was it hard to correct “Seleborn” to “Keleborn” in my head, but I eventually got used to it and now it’s automatic.
But there is another reason to pay attention to Robert Jordan’s pronunciation’s specifically. //If you are not pronouncing it eh-GWAIN ahl-VEER you may never realize the connection to Guinevere. Certainly not if you say eh-GWEE-nee like my friend does. You might still get Arthur (and obviously Thor) from al’Thor. But there are other allusions/references in the names that come out more obviously when you use RJ’s pronunciations. Nynaeve is a reference to the Lady of the Lake, a.k.a. Nimue or Vivian or Nyneve, and though I am not positive on that one I believe that is the reason her name is pronounced the way it is.//
I’m still learning to say ‘MWAH-rain’ rather the ‘MOY-rain’.
I definitely have the advantage of reading the story slowly and doing it for analysis. If I was just reading straight through, I wouldn’t have time to stop and think about what certain things might foretell because I’d be too busy tearing ahead to see what the next chapter holds! It is a very interesting way to consume a book.
Gotta say, y’all are tempting me with the white-outs this week. But I will remains strong! I am, however, going to start looking more closely at the icons! So thank you all for that. ;-)
@fernandan (#46)
I don’t think those are Spoilers, as it’s never explicitly brought up in the text, and pointing it out will only serve to further the reader’s enjoyment, not — you know….. — spoil it. Which should of course be the definition / criterium of what constitutes a Spoiler (it’s in the word, after all!) Still, I won’t say the things you mentioned that are not from The Wheel of Time in normal text this post, just in case Moderators disagree.
My actual points: First of all, indeed to each their own. See the last line of my previous post. It’s there for a reason.
Still (and secondly), the connections you mentioned are still prominent if you use a pronunciation such as Egg-WAY-nuh, which is the Dutch one [well, apart from the fact that we employ the Dutch ‘g’, which is impossible to reproduce in English]. I would even argue that Egg-WEE-nuh, the (counter-)example you gave to try and argue for the “canon” pronunciations, should also lead a lot of readers to the same connection I feel, just by reading the letters. Similarly, Nee-NEH-vuh is quite similar to //NIN-nuh-vee//, which is how I believe one of the alternative-words you wrote is pronounced.
@48 Sylas- it’s kinda funny, in Leigh’s original reread, the next chapter was the first time she mentions chapter icons, something that can help in predicting who will appear once you learn to associate them…
Wow, this was a bad day to come late to the post. Great analysis as always! Most of what I would say has already been said, but here are a few thoughts.
I remember when later books came out I would look at the table of contents first (just for say 5-10 seconds) and already my mind would form pictures of which anticipated events were in the book. The more you know, the more evocative those chapter titles are.
I loved the line about how cheerfully Gawyn said, “You’re the first person she’s had the chance to practice on.”
Gawyn and Elayne are very naive here. Yes, the young guy wearing a sword who fell into the royal garden is PROBABLY not a danger, but . . . Galad had the right of it.
//Elaida is SOOOOOOO different here than she was later on. Probably just her working hard to stay in the queen’s good graces, but wow what a difference!//
“You have Darkfriends on the brain, young fellow.” Haha, that’s nothing. I’ve had Shadowspawn on the brain, quite frequently, for the past 14 years.
I immediately warmed to Elayne with her propensity for healing injured animals and people.
I feel the exposition is a little clumsy here. When do people call each other by name when they couldn’t have been addressing someone else, or talk about things they both know, especially if a stranger is listening in? But I don’t much mind. It’s a fun scene.
After reading these chapters, Neuxue never stopped teasing Rand about his escapade and yelling at him to not climb something as soon as she read that it was in his vicinity.
Kudos to Elaida for knitting while advising. I like when people knit while doing other work. Escept at folk song swaps, where I find it annoyingly distracting to watch.
Spoilery things:
///Ironic Line of the Day: He was sure he would never get another chance to see a queen, and hoped he would never have another chance to see a false Dragon.
Also: A fine day for going unnoticed. I might as well carry a sign. Yeah, you will.
RJ was such a troll to rereaders.
Hi Lamgwin. Hi Tallanvor. Hi other Very Important Characters.
Aww, Elayne and Gawyn are so innocent and sweet. :-(
I wish Elayne hadn’t stopped her non-magical healing when she started using the One Power, with which she couldn’t Heal.
Good thing Lini didn’t get sent away with Elayne, as Morgase wanted, and thus was there to help Morgase break free of Rahvin.
I’d forgotten that Elaida could apparently Foretell on demand here, which isn’t normal. ///
@52 – // So, we are trying to define “normal” for a Talent as rare as Foretelling while standing nose to nose with the most strongly Ta’veren person to live for countless years? Good luck with that! Lol
//
Note: message edited by moderator to white out spoiler.
Sorry! White out seemed to work until it posted! Editing didn’t work either. I flagged my comment. Hopefully the Mods that Be will help.
Another good review of one of the more fun sections of the book. To add a few more names to the Arthur legend Easter eggs: “Al’Thor” -> Arthur, “Egwene Al’Vere” -> Gwenivere, “Thom Merillin” -> Merlin. Might be another couple I’m missing as well.
About pronunciation of proper names in the series: Do I recall that Kate Reading and Michael Kramer differ in the way they pronounce some important names in the audio books? Perhaps only in the early books? I seem to remember being annoyed by that when I first started listening to them. Of course, I was particularly annoyed when I realized I had been neither consistent nor logical when I heard those names in my interior dialogue.
As long as you only discuss the books in writing it doesn’t matter if everyone pronounces names differently. But if you talk to other people about it or listen to interviews different ways to pronounce things make it difficult to follow what others are talking about.
Yes, those chapter titles may very well be hinting at something. :-)
Several commenters have discussed how the passage about the blossoming garden gives insights into Elaida’s character. I think it also establishes an aspect of Elayne’s personality quite well.
I would also like to direct some attention towards a detail that I don’t think is spoilery in any way: It’s mentioned that Rand has paler skin than a typical Two Rivers person. It has been mentioned once before: Rand notices a diversity when he arrives to Caemlyn, with some people being unusually dark and others unusually pale. It’s easy to miss. It’s mentioned only very briefly, as the characters ascribe little significance to skin color. Any reader who pictures a world where everyone is as pale as a northern European is wrong. There are people of many nuances, and apparently nobody thinks that matters in any way. I think it’s a really nice touch, both that the diversity exists, and that it’s so unimportant.
I find that I tend to pronounce the names differently depending on which language I’m reading in. (I read Jordan’s books in Swedish translation, and Sanderson’s in English because they weren’t translated.) Pronouncing the names in a too English-like way while reading in Swedish tends to break the immersion, because the language spoken in Randland isn’t English. On the other hand, for some characters’ names it’s difficult to come up with a plausible pronunciation that doesn’t sound like English. (Characters’ names weren’t changed in the Swedish translation like Jadis666 says they were in the Dutch translation. Some English names of places were translated.) As for “Moiraine”, I just can’t avoid pronouncing that like French.
@56 Another Arthurian nod is the Angreal, Sa’angreal and Ter’angreal.
Sa’angreal – San Greal (Holy Grail).
Silas (i.e., TAFKAK – the Artist formerly known as Kelsey) – again, nice job on these amazing and enjoyable chapters. I like RJ’s nicely drawn characterizations of everyone in the Palace – Elayne, Gawyn, Galad, Tallanvor, Morgase, Elaida and even Gareth Brynne. Really effective, economical writing that highlights an apparent tipping point where Rand is publicly “outed” as someone of potentially world-affecting importance.
“Doesn’t make being the Dragon sound like much fun, does it? (Not that before this moment I thought it would be. Being the chosen one never is.)” You just put your finger on the overarching theme for the entire series. What is it going to take for a relatively untutored farmboy to become the prophesied savior of the World while substantially destroying it, and how much damage will there be to him and those around him in getting it done?
Regarding the heron marked blade – look back at the discussion between Lan and Rand while his father is getting healed by Moiraine in the Two Rivers.
““That is a fine weapon you wear. Is there by chance a heron on the blade, as well?”
For a moment Rand stared at the Warder, not grasping what it was he was talking about. He had completely forgotten Tam’s sword in the lather of dealing with an Aes Sedai. It did not seem so heavy anymore. “Yes, there is. What is she doing?”
“I’d not have thought to find a heronmark sword in a place like this,” Lan said.
“It belongs to my father.” He glanced at Lan’s sword, the hilt just visible at the edge of his cloak; the two swords did look a good deal alike, except that no herons showed on the Warder’s. He swung his eyes back to the bed. Tam’s breathing did sound easier; the rasp was gone. He was sure of it. “He bought it a long time ago.”
“Strange thing for a sheepherder to buy.”
Rand spared a sidelong look for Lan. For a stranger to wonder about the sword was prying. For a Warder to do it … Still, he felt he had to say something. “He never had any use for it, that I know of. He said it had no use. Until last night, anyway. I didn’t even know he had it till then.”
“He called it useless, did he? He must not always have thought so.” Lan touched the scabbard at Rand’s waist briefly with one forger. “There are places where the heron is a symbol of the master swordsman. That blade must have traveled a strange road to end up with a sheepherder in the Two Rivers.”
Rand ignored the unspoken question.”
You’ll find out something about Elaida’s fortelling that will explain why she did what she did. \\It’s because she doesn’t remember her fortellings. The pattern is the one that made her whisper the last bit only to Rand, because otherwise, they’d have locked him up and events wouldn’t unfold as the needed to.\\
I can’t remember which book you find out about Ajah’s, but you’ll know plenty about them soon enough. I didn’t think this next part was spoilery, but everyone seems to be dancing around it, so I’ll respect that and white it out. \\For now, it’s enough to know that each color tend toward a different specialty. One color deals more with healing, one mostly handles male channelers, etc… \\Also, you shouldn’t let an Aes Sedai hear you mention Black Ajah. You wouldn’t like the results. :)
You’re right about the heron mark sword. I won’t go into detail, to avoid spoilers, but suffice it to say that if you carry one, you should be considered extremely dangerous. If I remember correctly, we don’t get a ton of Tam’s back story. I think the intention was to reveal it more in one of the three prequels that were planned, but sadly we only ever got “New Spring” so I don’t know what the chances of us ever seeing those are. Someone else can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think Tam is ever portrayed as being good enough to have a heron mark blade. If I had to take a guess, I’d say it was more of the pattern making sure that Rand gets it than anything else.
You’re correct about finding the void. Lots of people use this technique, not just swordsmen or channelers and it’s not unique to this series either. Richard Rahl uses something like it in the “Sword of Truth” series. I’d still love to see someone do a read through on that series as well. It’s basically letting everything else go and only focusing on what’s important.
As far as keeping the rats out of the palace and her not liking them, I’ll just say, “think crows/ravens”.
Not so much on the titles and I can’t remember if he started doing it from the beginning, but did you notice the little pictures above the titles. Those symbols can sometimes give you a clue about the chapter.
You mention it not being fun to be the dragon reborn. Something that touches on this late in the series that I think is funny is that you’ll notice some of the characters talk over and over about how this or that is not like it is in the stories. I just think it’s funny because back in the day it was awesome to be the hero. You were in danger, but nothing too bad ever happened and you pulled through in the end. In this series, you see people put through the ringer and they they’re all like, “This never happened to the heroes in the stories. *Boohoo*”.
@62 Dalton24 About Tam. // we get plenty of his backstory before the end and he most certainly earned his heron mark. //
@51 tbgh RE Elaida // She is much different in the future because she is tainted by Fain. Mashadar increases her naturally suspicious tendencies. //
@62 – Edited – re Tam, your post is not correct for reasons stated under white cover up by @63.
Dalton24 @62: In your first white-out section, you’re confusing Elaida with a different character. // Nicola is the one who couldn’t remember her Foretellings. //
Sword of Truth is similar because it is copying many things from WoT.
@49
I don’t want to be the judge of what will increase any reader’s enjoyment, as everyone has a different standard. I prefer to be safe about it since it’s trivial for us veterans to highlight white text.
What I wanted to avoid was something like @56. Even though that connection is not made in the text, it is extra-textual analysis beyond the book that is being done by someone who knows where the story is going. It gives the unspoiled reader information that the characters in question may be even more significant than is already obvious.
“First of all, indeed to each their own. See the last line of my previous post. It’s there for a reason.” I understand that. I said “To each their own” to show that I don’t happen to agree with you.
On book two, p 560.
Hopefully I can stay ahead it’s nice to get a refresher!
@66 but that wasn’t a chicken it was evil manifest!
One thing that you probably haven’t picked up on yet is that Jordan seldom had his characters care about the skin tone of others and therefore that’s not focused on in the character viewpoints.
In chapter 40 (that you’ve just read) Elaida says that Rand’s skin is less dark than the normal two rivers person:
Elaida had put down her knitting, Rand realized, and was studying him. She rose from her stool and slowly came down from the dais to stand before him. “From the Two Rivers?” she said. She reached a hand toward his head; he pulled away from her touch, and she let her hand drop. “With that red in his hair, and gray eyes? Two Rivers people are dark of hair and eye, and they seldom have such height.” Her hand darted out to push back his coat sleeve, exposing lighter skin the sun had not reached so often. “Or such skin.”
In later books there are characters that have brown skin but since RJ never focuses on that the reader don’t pay it much mind either. In Randland there are much more important character attributes than we have with our narrow-minded prejudices.
For example I bet there are people that have read the books a number of times that don’t know that // Alanna // who shows up in book 2 have dark skin.
Description from text: “She is dark and fiery”, (TGH Ch4), slim , dark and pretty (ACOS Ch2).
(I don’t tink you’ll get spoiled by reading the hidden name in the text above.)
I hope that I haven’t offended anyone with this topic, My first language is not English so I may have expressed myself clumsily in places by mistake.
First of all, kudos to RobMRobM for highlighting one of the coolest // untold // back stories in the whole series. // If there had been any additional prequels besides New Spring, Tam’s early life and military career would have been probably the most interesting to read about. Two and three being: The Age of Legends and the events leading up to the opening of the Sharom sphere, with the aftermath up until the Strike at Shayol Ghul; and then perhaps Artur Hawkwing’s rise to power, with the splitting of his lineage to conquer the lands across the Aryth Ocean, and his siege on Tar Valon. If anyone else has any cool ideas for an “outrigger” novel, I’d be interested to hear what they think. //
Anyhoo, I figured I’d throw my two cents in about how I go about pronunciatin’ them names.
Nynaeve: nyn-aye-eve.
Egwene: eg-wayne
Moiraine: Mwor-rain
Aiel: ah-eel
And for those that are more caught up:
Mazrim Taim: maz-rim tah-eem
Just for continuity reference, compare that to:
Davram Bashere: dah-vrum bah-sheer
My pronunciation guide:
Rand = Rand
Mat = Mat
Perrin = Perrin
Lan = Lan
:D
I read this during a long car ride (business trip) and forgot to respond, but I was SO impressed at some of the observations and predictions you made. And I forgot how great this first book was and the joy of discovering the new worlds and characters. I wish I could delve deeper into the discussion this week but I’m just short on time.
I’ll just say that I absolutely love Logain’s denouement and leave it at that :)
Coming back to the comments:
@22 – That is EXACTLY why //Nyneave is my favorite. Her ‘failure’ of the Aes Sedai tests is one of my favorite scenes in any book.//
I love the glossaries! It used to be my ritual that whenever I got a new WoT book, I’d read through the glossary first. They generally did not spoil the book you were about to read (although yes, in some of the later books, especially as relates to said ‘mystery’, some minor things DID get spoiled). I always wanted to go through and hand type out a glossary that combined the definitions for each book so I could see how certain entries changed but I never did it.
That said, I pretty much ignore the official pronunciations, I have to admit. If a movie ever comes out that will probably help cement them in my mind, but for now they still sound like the way they initially did when I sounded them out as a reader. But @46 – I totally here you on the Celeborn/Seleborn thing. Funny thing is, now Seleborn really does feel wrong to me even though at the time it felt more attractive/natural. But the movies also helped with that since they were so meticulous about getting the language right.
@57 I noticed some differences between Kate Reading and Michael Kramer’s pronunciations, but it seems to level out a little as the series goes on. The most significant one is Kramer’s More-ain vs Reading’s Mwah-renne.
This is such an important part of the book, and yeah, things pick up pretty quick after this point! As fast as I read this the first time around I remember wondering how all the characters could possibly get to Tar Valon with so (relatively) few pages left!
@fernandan (#67)
I understand the motivation behind this stance. I really do. You don’t want to do something that makes The Wheel of Time less of an amazing read for Silas than it otherwise could have been.
However, I also happen to think it’s misguided. Or, perhaps more accurately, based on false assumptions. The problem is that a deliberate choice to pursue a lack of action is, in fact, an action too. Thus, by choosing not to share something with a reader/watcher/whatever for fear of Spoiling them, we may in fact be lessening their experience — or, to use the obvious synonym, spoiling that experience. So whiting out, or not posting altogether, information isn’t necessarily “being safe”.
So, in the end, the harsh truth of it is that we simply don’t have a choice but to make a judgement on whether revealing information or not revealing information would be beneficial or detrimental to Silas’ reading experience. Whatever we do (or not do), it will still have an effect. Of course, it’s always possible that we will be mistaken in our assessments. But the rule:
completely ignores the complexity of the matter, and thus loses sight, to a high degree, of the reasons that underlie the adage not to post Spoilers. Which then, obviously, makes such a stance really rather worthless, all things considered.
Take the name-connection thing for example. Sure, it may clue Silas in on the importance of those Characters — although, it has to be said, all 3 Characters mentioned at (#56) have already been shown to be really rather significant in the story; with one of them possibly even having fulfilled his role to completion as far as we know at this point — but at the same time it may clue him in on little Characterization and Character Development nuances in the text to come that he would not have picked up on otherwise. In fact, having read a good portion of the series being somewhat unaware of at least 1 or 2 of those connections, and then having re-read it while indeed knowing about the connections, I can safely say that the difference is quite clear indeed.
And Silas isn’t going to do a re-read in this blog, so the only chance he has is being given just enough information to get the maximum enjoyment, while not being given too much to Spoil upcoming surprises. It’s a fine line to walk for us commenters, but it MUST be walked. We can’t just make it easy for ourselves by going completely to one side or the other, as that simply doesn’t work. It wouldn’t be in keeping with The Wheel of Time either, as one of the major Themes in this series is that Evil lies in the extremes, while Good lies in the middle. See the Children of the Light aka the Whitecloaks, for example. Or, based on the stories Moiraine told, Mordeth’s extremism is probably also what turned Aridhol into Shadar Logoth. At least, that’s how I interpreted it when I first read those chapters.
Apologies if this has already been noted.
PBS is doing the Great American Read. Per the GAR website, “THE GREAT AMERICAN READ is an eight-part series that explores and celebrates the power of reading, told through the prism of America’s 100 best-loved novels (as chosen in a national survey). It investigates how and why writers create their fictional worlds, how we as readers are affected by these stories, and what these 100 different books have to say about our diverse nation and our shared human experience.”
One of the books is the Wheel of Time (the entire series). People can vote which of the 100 books they think is the best. The web site is http://www.pbs.org/the-great-american-read/home/
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
SO late to this! First off though, a couple of petty little spelling and grammar misses for Moderators to fix:
Paragraph 6: I think that should be “victory of the Light over the Shadow.”
Paragraph 13: Galad is of house ‘Damodred’, not house Damordred.
And straight on to part 15 in my catch-up after having to miss a week.
@79 – Fixed, thank you!
Thanks for doing this. It has been fun reading again alongside you, even if this time is via audiobook.
Just a note about the chapter titles. You have likely noticed that if you are reading the print version, the icons that appear at the beginning of each title is significant to both the subject and the perspective of each chapter. Kind of fun to keep in mind as you go into each chapter, especially as you get deeper into the later books.
Stay in the Light.
I agree with Leigh Butler here, chapter 40 is one of my favorite chapters in the whole series, serious.
//Did Morgase release him because he is “T” word? I mean just a second ago Elaida made a FORETELLING. No superstition that Morgase wants to be no part of. Even if Morgase didn’t hear the whispered sentences, just having a fortelling (which is rare) which dooms all of Andor, at the same time she is demanded to speak of her thoughts of Rand would make me consider taking Bryn’s advice in consideration//
//“I’m sure that kind of calm focus is even more important in channeling than it is swordplay.” + “Either that or it’s some kind of physical manifestation of Mordeth following them because of the dagger” I was impressed before with Sylas, but DAMN, he’s good add this one as well “Perhaps it’s because I’m already suspicious of Elaida, but I suspect we will find plenty of Perhaps it’s because I’m already suspicious of Elaida, but I suspect we will find plenty of Aes Sedai who are out of touch with the regular people”//
@2 – I am a total sucker for royalty meets commoner accidentally scenes – Yep.
@11 – “Non-spoilery thoughts? Nope. I might pop a blood vessel keeping them in, though.” – *falling of my chair laughing*
@26 – “@19 – I’m with you!!” well, “Those observations about //Fain//?!?!? Come on!” well, either Sylas plays us very well, or… but Tor wouldn’t do april fool’s day on us now would they?
@36 -“New Spring is an expanded version of a scene in book 2” – really? tell me about it
@37 – “/I wonder how long it will take Sylas to let the chapter icons get completely under her skin” Her skin? Sylas is a she?
@51 – “I loved the line about how cheerfully Gawyn said, “You’re the first person she’s had the chance to practice on.” – //yeah, she practiced on him more then just this ;)
Hey Sylas K Bennett,
First off, I want to tell you how much I am reading these chapter breakdowns of yours. I have a read a little over half of the series so far but just seeing through other people’s eyes and their opinions of it is awesome.
Second, your assumptions about things are so spot on its uncanny. Are you sure you haven’t read the series before? Some of the assumptions/ predictions you have made most people would not have gotten on their first time reading it.
But with all that being said keep up the good work and I cant wait to read more of your outlooks on this series
I had to pause reading because I became completely flummoxed by how freaking astute you are!! I hope when the whole read is over, you go back through yourself and see how uncanny you are! Well done!
Mat calling Loial a TROLLOC, is one the funnier moments in this series. I still snicker when I read it.